Discovery Home & Health

Helen, thank you for your nice comments and glad to be of help...

To start a thread, all you need to do is go the main page and start a new thread, a new topic and call it maintenance.
I honestly understand your concern and the need for strong support whilst in maintenance and I have no idea how the whole thing is going to be dealt with in my own group. My councillor seems good and caring but the people in maintenance seem like a fleeting group, they don't stay for the meeting and they seem to be doing their own thing...I've seen 3 of them, one seems very focused, one put on 12 lbs and is completely depressed, and one is holding on but completely terrified of food 4 months after finishing the programme...so what's to be done? I am not really sure but it would be a good idea to have a feed back from other people to see how they're coping and if they feel the're having enough support, that's why the forum would good...second point, have you talked to your own councillor to see if anything could be done, in my group there are people on packs like myself, and every now and then someone in maintenance would drop in...so the discussion is not really geared up towards maintenance, I am not sure at this point if it is a good or bad thing...how is it in yours? and are you still paying? and if you are until when? if there is an important number of people who are feeling that the support they're getting in maintenance is not enough then something must be done...
I am taking this issue extremly seriously because I am starting maintenance in 3 weeks and if I don't get it right; after sweating the fat for so many months; I'll be shiped back to fat Island like a shot...let's figure something out..
would be good to hear from people who are starting management soon or already doing management, what are your views???

AmandadePanda
xxx

PS Helen it's done, and I just copied my post from the other thread in reply to yours.

Amandapanda, thank you I hope this is what is required, tell me I am on the wrong track.

Went to my second maintence meeting. NO counselling, just chatting amongst ourselves and then individually weighed, given a CD (which is good). Spoke to the others in general. All seemed quite large - sorry but do not know how to put it nicely. Am very worried only say 3 of us out of 10 looked slim. One lady next to me had put 6lbs on in a week and was feeling very down - had originally lost 7 stone!

I must say my eating is very erratic - quite seem to control it so have decided to try and go back into abstience for one day purely to see if I can control it - do not want to because of hair situation BUT could end up fat and bald instead of thin and bald! (Joke).

I would really love to reassure you and perhaps your meetings will be different but for me it is everyone for themselves. Deeply concerned but am trying to be strong and think positively by listening to the CD and re-reading the books.

In short it really does appear that people are struggling seriously with holding the weight off!

I am so sorry not to be more positive but I can only be honest - really sorry.

Love Helen xxx

Hello All. I haven't posted here for quite a while because I was waiting for the men's group in my area to start up. Well, today is my first day - so far so good, one banana food pack, one chocolate foodpack and 6 litres of water so far! I've got about 4.5 stone to lose so a fair way to go yet. I'll keep you posted.

Hello Helen, Wishing you a wonderful Mother's Day, and to all mothers on this forum...hope you have a wonderful time...you must feel and look a million dollar... and very rightly so..

On the topic of maintenance, I've a sneaky impression that LL doesn't put much emphasis on it... and from a financial point of view, let's be cynical for one second, there is a more money to be made out of someone who keeps on the merry-go-round struggling with their weight and going back on food packs than from someone who gets a good grip on their own behaviour towards food...

In my group also I don't think there is much going on regarding maintenance...which is ironic really because it is most certainly when help is needed...it is only when faced with real (food) choices that one will end up learning about the real reasons behind the medication with food...in my opinion all the things we're taught when in abstinence really don't apply because been in abstinence is an unreal situation, and food is not alcohol, it's not like we can live without ever mentioning or thinking about food, If we don't eat, we die...one can't learn about making choices if there are no choices to be made... so no wonder that most people feel they've learned nothing are terrified of falling off the wagon.... Therefore I really think that private therapy might be the solution...and exercise as a mean to control food intake...have you thought of going for 1to1 therapy?

AmandadePanda
xxx

Amandapanda, Thank you again, I would love to meet you in the flesh
although I realise you do not have much!!!!

Yes, really interested in 1 to 1 therapy BUT how do I find out about it please?

I too am very worried about this lack of help and have had a sneaking thought that it would be in LL best interest to keep people on packs. I went back on food packs yesterday and I am out today and had overeaten on the correct foods the day before, felt everything going out of control. Feel better I managed to stay on packs (4) but long term not a good sign.

I was distraught the other night because I am so happy with my weight and could feel myself spinning out of control. Once you get the taste for food again (even say a salad) it is hard for me to just have a suitable portion.

If you could give any advice on therapy I would be very grateful.

Again many thanks, Love Helen xxx

Hi Helen, How are you keeping???
Check the website of BA of CBT http://www.babcp.org.uk/ or alternatively ask your coucillor she may know someone

I think the support people are getting or not on management is very much depending on the councillor, how much they know and how much they care and how much they think it is important or not. in my weekly group meeting, we have a nice time, we laugh a lot, it is a very comfortable and very relaxed atmosphere however I have not seen much CBT going on...

I guess at the end of day it up to us to work out what to do, it is our responsability...and it is primarily about what happens in our head...I keep saying it again and again, it is about being clear about what kind a choice we're making, and being clear about the choice means to keep making the same choice over and over again, as many times a day as it is necessary until it becomes so integrated in the way we are on a daily basis...so everytime you feel like finishing what's in your plate or going for dessert or going for a second helping..ask yourself at that specific moment what choice am I making??? it will go 2 ways; either you override every hope, thought, dream you have for yoursel or you remember that you're trying to be the best person you can be and have the best life you can have and decide well No am going to pass..

I agree, easier said than done..however REPETITION is the key here...keep choosing the same thing even if you fail at it...one day you will wake up and discover that it has become part of you are..

I have a dilemma, I have 2 weeks to go until management and I am quite focused simply because I put aside all the triggers that made me eat in the past, going out, visiting relatives, going to parties...I am going to Cyprus in May for 2 weeks, I went on my own last year and this time I am taking my boyfriend to all my favourite places...but I am having a real hard time accepting that I would need to restrict myself...as much as I am OK with the idea of watching what I eat here I am not that happy to have to restrict myself on holiday...and as I am not really facing any of real food situation I have no idea how strong my determination or how fierce my over-indulgence will be..

On the topic of exercise, are you doing any at all?

Keep well,

Lovexxx

Amandapanda, Hello

Thanks so much for the great advice as usual!

On the issue of holidays - we are all skiers! Decided to have planned eating on holiday, one at Christmas and New Year and again at Half-term. Put on 11lbs at half-term but went immediately back on 3 packs a day for a week and lost it. It appears that if you gain and deal with it quickly it comes off just as fast. I had a lovely time and felt free in my mind as I KNEW and had made the decision to eat! BUT equally planned to shift it quickly worked very well for me. Hope that helps. Should also add - I ate anything I wanted enjoyed it and did not feel guilty - knowing I would deal with it!
Had a really positive frame of mind about the issue.

Went to maintenance, week 3 last night, same old chit chat!
But am holding my weight - had a word and asked if I could go back to week one as I have a real problem with portion control - and this is possible. Will let you know how I get on.

Also had a fantastic Mother Days - over ate but got back on track the next day and also was strict prior to going out. BECAUSE I AM SO FRIGHTENED OF BECOMING FAT AGAIN!!!!!!!

Sorry to ramble but hope I am helping!

sorry me again re: exercise - I walk my lovely old airdale - 12 years old in August about a mile a day! But other than that no - feel more hungry if I do and makes the programme harder for me to stick to.

Love Helen xxx

Hello Helen and Amanda...

I have just been reading this very interesting thread about coping when we are re-introduced to food and I am not surprised at all that there doesdn't seem a lot of support from LL counsellors. As with all diets, the only reason they are all so successful is that on the whole they don't work for long. If they did then they would go out of business, they rely on people going back again and again over the years. I am very cynical (by nature!) and have been about the standard of support in LL and that was why I chose to have some 1-1 psychotherapy as well. I don't have a lot of faith in CBT having tried it many years ago to help with panic attacks. I feel that my problems about food, but more importantly about how I have felt about myself, are far deeper rooted than the surface approach that CBT offers. I literally found a Psychotherapist in the yellow pages, avoiding the one who did CBT. This one is a Dr of psychology and he has been really good, and being able to talk about all your real fears and worries about all aspects of life is such a great thing! I am sure that with his help I can address many more reasons why I have eaten in the past than I will have done on LL. I have literally used LL to get me to a position that I haven't been in for many years, ie a size and shape that I am at last becoming content with, and by doing so I am discovering myself again. With LL I am able to tackle the problem with food from a 'thinner' perspective and not try and lose weight as a fat person who will always give in.

This programme has taught me a lot. I have hated it all the way, but it has shown me (and others who doubted me) that I have a real determination and can achieve when I set mey mind to it and that in turn has made me feel a whole lot better about myself, and now I have got this far, I feel that I deserve to be smaller and to be more attractive and more confident and with that feeling and the help of the therapist when things get really hard, I think I can crack it.
I am very unsure about the whole maintenance thing, I don't really want to hand over any more of my hard earned cash (I have just got myself a part time job which literally just pays for LL and the therapy!) if there is not going to be some pretty good support.

Both of you have done so incredibly well and we are all fighting some pretty tough odds out there, after all, most of us have taken some years to get to the point where we were before we started this, and it is such a hard thing to do, to lose weight in this manner. My advice, for what it is worth is just to find out what works for you, and if that is therapy, whether it be CBT or any other kind, then find someone in your area, I know it's a worthwhile investment.
I did try hypnotherapy a couple of years ago, for weight loss - I loved it, it had no affect whatsoever on my weight loss, but I could suddenly drive on motorways which I had always been too afraid to do...maybe I am just a really odd person, but all that is worth looking into.

Anything is better than the fear of getting fat (and believe me I am with you on that one) we have come so far and struggled so much we deserve all the things we have always dreamed of, and we must allow ourselves to have them without fear.

I am sorry to have gone on soooo long but I feel very strongly that we all need to find the help we need, and I am sure it is out there.

You are both amazing women and your support for all of us has been astounding - thank you

Izzy xxx

Izzy, Thank you so much for you last post! My goodness this is wonderful - I feel so much of what you have said is a true reflection of myself - BUT how do I find a good physchologist!
Am very worried about wasting hard earned money.

At present I will not touch carbs - am eating when I really feel the need be it 8.00 a.m. or 8.00 p.m. but only once a day, mainly fish and sorry to say almonds (to feed my hair (suffered hair shedding)I realise I should kick the habit but they do leave me feeling satisfied and to date have not felt like bingeing on bread, sweets etc) which I can control to one bag a day! That sounds awful I know but for me who can eat for England believe this is control (I hope). Have had some fruit but find it hard to control portions. As I am in week 4 I should only have 2 shakes but in order to control myself I sometimes have more.
Am maintaining weight loss - but, of course, early days yet.

Do I sound in control?

Love Helen xxx

Hi Helen,

I think you sound scared (and rightly so!) Being afraid of food can certainly make you feel out of control, but you have done SO well to get this far, don't let the gremlins get you now!!! I know we are all different and thats why this can be so hard as we all react to different stresses in our own ways. You probably know what it is about food that you have difficulty in controlling and maybe that is what you need to 'get out in the open' so to speak, with someone who won't judge you or tell you to pull yourself together or any of those things which often don't work.
I think that being able to talk to someone about all those deep feelings that maybe you have never been able to do before can really unlock a whole new you! I could be well off the track here, so let me know if I am...

As for the eating itself (after all it's all very well to suggest you find a therapist, but you need to survive long enough to do that!) I have to say that I would advise (and I really am only saying any of this from how I feel rather than any deep knowledge) that you try to eat three times a day. You seem to be doing really well with the protein, so keep that up. Have you got the Atkins book? It is really interesting and if you follow the premise that to begin with in there you can eat as much protein as you like (and if you do you may well find you get full before you actually eat that much) then that may at least tide you over while trying to find a therapist. I think eating once a day would finish me off, but maybe getting into some kind of routine...I am just really writing as I am thinking here, so I hope it's not too disjointed!

As for a therapist, well as I said I literally looked in the yellow pages and looked for one who was a Dr as I felt that he would have some idea of what I was feeling like. My problems come from childhood and my mother always telling me I was fat "like your Gran!" she would say (that was my dads mum who she never liked!) then my brothers have always thought it a huge laugh to call me fat and comment on my size all my life. I can tell you, that they have had to eat their words now!! The thing that made me most angry is that when I see pics of me as a young woman I was lovely and not at all fat, yet I always thought I was. When my mother died I put on even more weight and I still don't know why, but now, 2 years on I feel that I don't have to be how any of them 'think' of me, I can be who I am and if they (family) don't like it, then they can deal with it!

I know it's hard - really hard but hang in there...how much have you lost? I think the carrot that some LL counsellors dangle on a stick about helping us to change the way we feel about food, is just that and it makes me really angry. We are vulnerable, especially at the start of the programme and to do this particular one, you can bet that we are all desperate too and that's why there should be far more help right from the start and right to the end.

Sorry - too much rambling again, but good luck, really you do deserve it, we all do!

Izzy xxx

Izzy, thank you so much for your reply. I am now in tears, all that you wrote reflect my own thoughts. My mother, especially my older sister and siblings all took great delight in telling me how fat I was - when I married my wedding dress was a size 10 - like you looking back I was not fat! But always made to feel fat! So in the end I became fat. I have tried so hard to instill in my beautiful seventeen year old daughter food is a fuel - lovely tasting - but fuel - only eat to what you want etc., she is and has always been very petite - eats what she wants but in moderation. So thankfully I have managed not to pass on my own bad relationship with food.

We are all products of our childhood and it was not until my mid-thirties that I finally stood up to my family and stopped them making me cry! Sadly, for me little contact is the best method and although I am nearly fifty and have had good and bad times - I do not regret letting my family go. I hope I do not sound uncaring or callous but I had to for my and my immediate family's sanity.

Anyway will re-read you posts, they are very inspiring. Have lost just under 4 stone from 1st Oct 03 - Jan 04. Now in maintenance and in love with nuts! Feel so much better about weight went from tight size 18 to 8-10! Lovely.

Again Thankyou, Love Helen x x x

Hello Helen,

Thanks for that reply! I am sorry I made you cry though! I don't think it is at all callous that you have 'divorced' your family, after all, we can't chose them can we? My mother made my life a misery from teens onwards and to be honest it was a relief when she went - now that probably sounds callous! We kind of made an agreement just before she died. I couldn't forgive some of the things she said, but I said that I didn't believe she meant to be that nasty and she had a lot of her own problems that instead of dealing with, she dumped on me!
I am so glad you have a lovely daughter - see what you have achieved by bringing her up so balanced! My daughter on the other hand does use food as a weapon (against me!) but has shown a new respect for me now I have actually lost the weight. It is a really hard issue, particularly with women, although there are obviously men who struggle too. I think we substitute food for a lot of what we feel we didn't get and needed when we were young. Like you, I want to change that way of life. Food is great, it's lovely, but like you say to your daughter it is fuel, we need it but it isn't the be all and end all of life! I certainly wouldn't have said that a few weeks ago!!
I have really struggled on this diet and had to fight with lots of demons, but I do feel stronger now. I now feel like the woman I knew I was instead of the one who hid inside the 'fat' body! And that does feel good!
You are strong too - to have come this far you have done sooo well! Size 8-10 WOW!! And I thought I was doing well to be in size 14!
Well done, keep it up, never mind the nuts, after all there are a lot worse things...like doughnuts or cream cakes!!
Take care
Love Izzy x

Hello ladies, I'm sorry to interupt the flow of conversation, but i am very interested in the battle of maintenance, and i was wondering if you could tell me roughly how much a session of pschotherapy costs? I am currently on week 9 of LL and am looking forward to eating but still feel i may not be able to control my eating and as my group is offering very little therapy, just great camraderie and i'd like to see what issues i have that makes me lose control around food the way i do!

If i'm being to nosey just tell me to bog off, otherwise i shall keep up with your progress. You are doing great and i wish you all the luck in the world, and just don't forget you are strong willed and can achieve what you set your mind too. Enjoy your evening x

Hello again,

Private therapy is in my opinion quite pricey around London for what it is, most therapists (CBT, don't know about the rest) charge between � 100 and � 70 (1 session = 1 hour), closer to the 100 mark which actually can be covered by your insurance if you have one...I don't think it should cost that much (lets face it, it's not Rocket science...there is nothing dangerous or technically unheard of that would justify � 100).

I personally wouldn't pay that...out of principle I always find people who overcharge generally not very good...or quite dishonest and I don't want to hang around either...The CBT site list quite few names of therapists...2 months ago I felt I needed to see one..I narrowed it down to 2 people, the respectively charged 50 & 60 pounds pers session, first one sunded quite harsh and unsensitive on the phone so that was a No-No and the other was fine on the phone but could only see me every other Saturday, I though about it for a while and decided not to go for it... because when I have no way of assessing a situation, I do read the signs and to me a therapist who from day 1 is not available is not a good sign...in the end I decided to give up on the idea all together, just felt after that, that it was not the right thing for me to do at that time...I might go back to it if I feel it and I might not. the weirdest thing is that the main issue I wanted to see the therapist for I resolved by using this incredible and simple trick, staying with the feeling, it also dawned on me that actually my motivation to go see a therapist was to get away from the pain Whereas the only way in my opinion of truly working through issues (found that out later)is exactly that...staying with it. When we accept the idea of hurting and and embrace the feeling of pain...it just dissolves...The Wonderful Dr Christiane Northrup writes in her book Women's bodies, Women's Wisdom

'healing can occur when we allow ourselves to feel, express, and release emotions from the past that we have suppressed or try to forget . I call this emotional incision and drainage. I've always likened this deep proces to treatment of an abcess. Any surgeon knows that the treatment for an abcess is to cut it open allowing the pus to drain. When this is done the pain goes away immediatley and new healthy tissues can reform where the abcess once was. It is the same with emotions, they too become walled off, causing pain and absorbing energy If we do not experience and release them. If a woman is encouraged to stay with what she is feeling, to go into it, to make the sounds that she needs to make and to cry or shout as long as necessary, stayig completely with her innermost self. she'll often discover that her body has the innate ability to heal every painful memory and events from her past. When we are willing to be with what is instead of running away from it, we will often be able to work through painful experiences that have lain dormant and taken our energy for years...Stephen Levine calls this experience 'the pain that ends the pain'

Hope this helps...
AmandadePanda
xxx